Exclusive Interview/ Palanivel Thiaga Rajan, information technology minister, Tamil Nadu
On a sunny day after Cyclone Michaung wreaked havoc in Chennai, calm prevailed on the swanky Greenways Road. The gates of Ezhil, the official residence of Information Technology Minister Palanivel Thiaga Rajan, opened wide to let us in. The path took us past a tennis court―built in memory of his father, P.T.R. Palanivel Rajan―to his busy office.
Clad in his signature white shirt, paired with grey trousers, and with a dot of vermillion on his forehead, the minister walked to the door to welcome us.
He might be from a political dynasty―his father was close to DMK patriarch M. Karunanidhi and his grandfather P.T. Rajan was chief minister of the Madras presidency―but he has combined it with his academic heft and modernity to carve a space for himself in today’s politics.
He is one of the strong opposition voices against the BJP and his work as Tamil Nadu finance minister earned him a national profile. Now in his new role as IT minister, PTR plans to make Tamil Nadu the leader in the field, overtaking Karnataka and Telangana.
He talked about the recent state elections and the INDIA bloc as he walked us to the dining table, where a delicious south Indian fare awaited. He also talked about the north-south debate, delimitation, international investment and upcoming schemes in his first, exclusive interview as IT minister. Edited excerpts:
Q/ How do you see the Congress’s loss in the Hindi heartland affecting the INDIA bloc?
A/ In my view, people were unhappy with the [governments] and they expressed [it]. I do not know enough of the ground situation in Madhya Pradesh to say what was the variable. But it was unprecedented that so many Union ministers and MPs were asked to [contest]. So, maybe the BJP knew something that we did not know. They needed to have senior people with skin in the game. Can you think of any other example where sitting Union ministers and MPs were asked to run for an MLA position?
My hypothesis is that, in the end, no government is ever defeated by an opposition. Most elections are seen as referendums on the government rather than any great hope in the opposition because in most parts of this country... there are few new entrants.
Q/ Do you think these results will affect the Congress’s relationship with regional parties in the INDIA bloc?
A/ The INDIA bloc is more a philosophical alliance than a nationwide electoral math optimisation [process]. The fact that we (Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam) are aligned with the TMC (Trinamool Congress) or with the SP (Samajwadi Party) does not change our electoral prospects in Tamil Nadu in any way. The INDIA bloc is a statement that we are for secularism, social justice, inclusion, the rule of law and strong institutions, and we are against authoritarianism. I think the [2024 Lok Sabha] election comes down to whether the INDIA bloc results in optimisation in the Hindi-speaking states plus Gujarat.
Q/ Do you see a north versus south fight in the 2024 election?
A/ I do not want to make it north versus south. I will make it something slightly different. States that are net donors and are relatively well-off in education and development tend to have non-BJP governments. And those states that are really poor, underdeveloped and under-educated tend to [have] BJP governments. I do not know what drives these outcomes; I am just remarking on the outcome.
Some of this has not even got to do with the richness of the state. [For instance,] Gujarat is considered a developed state, but only 50 per cent of the girls there are finishing high school. In the multidimensional poverty index of the Union government, the poverty rate there is three or four times higher than in Tamil Nadu.
Talking strategy: (From left) DMK leader T.R. Baalu, Tamil Nadu Chief Minister M.K. Stalin, Rahul Gandhi, West Bengal Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee and Sonia Gandhi | PTI
Q/ When delimitation comes, the representation from the south, be it Kerala or Tamil Nadu, will go down. What is your take on that?
A/ We are in an unusual situation in the sense that no other country of our size has the problems that we have. As the administration is centralised, we have a huge disparity at various levels. I do not see any simple solution, but I see one clear thread running through this, which is that devolution of power resolves a lot of these problems. Devolution of power from the Centre to the states, from the states to the districts and the local bodies as in Kerala, for example, will give you a hundred benefits. In a normal design, we should leave Delhi with foreign affairs, defence, the banking system, currency stability, inter-state commerce and international trade. These should be the only subjects that the Centre should deal with. If that is the only thing, we need not be worried if a state has 39 or 25 MPs.
Q/ In a manufacturing state such as Tamil Nadu, do you see any interference from Delhi in the process of bringing investment to the state?
A/ I would say continuously, [regarding] petty things. It is a bit strange. For example, if a minister of a state government has to travel overseas, he has to get permission from Delhi and clearance from the external affairs ministry. Not just clearance; compared with other places, foreign investment, for instance, is being directed only to Gujarat or other BJP states. It is a kind of preferential model or kind of hierarchical model of where to provide and what level of incentive [to give].
At a political level, I see unnecessary interference and short-sightedness. We ought to be getting so much more investment in creating factories, jobs and service organisations. We ought to be sending more people to work in other parts of the world.
But the Union government does not actively encourage us. They should be giving us incentives, promoting and supporting us. Not only are they not doing that, [but] they are playing petty politics in these kinds of international relations and promotions. It is just so short-sighted. It is sad actually.
Q/ Is there resistance from the Union government in terms of getting investment?
A/ The government of India retards our ability to attract investment and create jobs. This is disheartening and unnerving. It seems like politics has overtaken real outcomes. This is a loss to the whole country.
Q/ Do you think the opposition-ruled states are threatened by Central agencies? The Enforcement Directorate recently arrested one of your ministers.
A/ A lot of Central agencies have been weaponised and politicised. And they are very selective [when it comes to] BJP and non-BJP states. So I think that intelligent people do not need to have that debate.
But I am not saying that the ED-level people are interfering with growth. I think these are two slightly different things; one is politics and the [other is] politics of vindictiveness.
Q/ When you were finance minister, you talked about free bus rides and a Rs1,000 dole for women. Do these schemes really empower women and are these sustainable?
A/ There are all kinds of freebies, from good to inefficient to unimplementable. The free breakfast we now give in elementary schools is one of the best schemes I have ever seen in my life. It is like rupee for rupee. The cost at which we are doing it.
Lumping them (freebies) all together is too simplistic and very often done for political reasons. As far as bus rides are concerned... we have now done a study through the planning commission [that] shows that, on average, women save Rs880 a month, and the bulk of them spend that money on getting better nutrition for their children.
When you [ask] if this is sustainable, I will only point to my track record. After I came to the finance ministry, I brought the annual revenue deficit of the state down from Rs62,000 crore to Rs30,500 crore. In two years, we had so many new schemes, including free bus rides. So, if you know what you are doing, you can actually achieve your policy initiatives with sustainable models of financing.
Q/ What is your take on Udhayanidhi Stalin’s comment on “eradicating” sanatan dharma?
A/ My view is that the notion that any human being should be limited to doing only what their forefathers or their ancestors did is antithetical to the notion of democracy. It is the upper class who taught us that you do not have to do what your father did. Relatively well-to-do upper-caste landlords like us went on to do other things. Well-educated Brahmins left priesthood and went on to be judges, collectors, auditors, lawyers, engineers, inventors and whatnot. So the world, overall, has become a fluid labour market. So this notion that you should be restricted based on your caste or your birth is antithetical to the notion of democracy. We live in a kind of high-strung world where everything gets blown out of proportion easily. I have been a victim of that myself in the early days in my ministry.
Q/ Tamil Nadu BJP president K. Annamalai said that you have been “muted”. Do you agree with that?
A/ From the beginning, I was not talking for the sake of talking. You have to remember how vast my portfolio was. I was minister of finance and human resources. So I talked a lot because I was presenting the government’s view, its policy. Now I am not in that position. So it is only fair that the minister in that portfolio has both the right and the duty to do that. I am the IT minister. If there is anything related to IT, I would like to speak on it.
Q/ There were plans for an IT park in Hosur. What is its status now?
A/ I think the vision for Hosur is much broader than just an IT park. We have announced something called high-tech city. It was envisioned as mini-Gurugram: a few hundred acres of infrastructure―commercial, residential, societal, hotels, malls, hospitals, schools. We are planning high-tech cities not just in Hosur, but also in north Chennai, near Madhavaram, and in Coimbatore. We have identified some pieces of land and we are in the middle of getting them alienated. I have already started talking to private developers. This kind of high-tech city is likely to be a 15- to 20-year project. It will give huge returns, but will require patient capital.
Q/ You recently visited Hyderabad and studied K.T. Rama Rao’s IT policy. Do you think Tamil Nadu will have to adopt some of those plans? Where is Tamil Nadu in the IT sector?
A/ I would say Tamil Nadu is already doing much better than most people think. I am taking no credit for it. As many as 10,000 IT jobs are being created a month in the state. And it is not just call centre work; I have [inaugurated] two AI company offices in the past six weeks. So, a lot of good things are happening.
Q/ Tamil Nadu was once a leader in IT. Now it is behind Bengaluru and Hyderabad.
A/ That is something slightly different. The top four IT destinations in the country are Bengaluru, Hyderabad, Pune and Chennai. Less than 25 per cent of the workforce in Bengaluru is Kannadiga. If you go to Hyderabad, it is probably slightly better. You go to Pune, 50 per cent are locals. If you come to Chennai, probably 80 per cent are locals. This is profound, because it is a huge plus in some ways. Working close to home has turned out to be a major incentive after Covid. People want to be located just one bus or train ride away from home, or one car journey away from their native place, in case something goes wrong. Having 80 per cent of the engineering workforce close to home is a big [advantage]. We have so many second-tier cities, low attrition rate, relatively low cost and stable workforce, and a natural labour pool. These are huge advantages.