ZAMIR KABULOV is Russia’s top diplomat in Afghanistan. He served as Russian ambassador to Kabul from 2004 to 2009 and is now President Putin’s special representative in Kabul. With extensive experience in the region, he is at the heart of the Kremlin’s attempts for peace in the region. In an exclusive interview with THE WEEK, Kabulov says the west is trying to foment trouble in Afghanistan and that India has a key role to play in bringing peace to the country. Excerpts:
Q/ What role do you think India can play to resolve the Afghan crisis?
A/ India is a strong regional actor with security interests in the region, so it can and should play a major role, along with Russia, China and other neighbours of Afghanistan. We believe that outsiders―Americans and Europeans―cannot play a role, because Afghanistan, for them, is a remote idea. But we all care. In that sense, India should play a big role.
We did our best to build formats. Of course, we already have the Moscow format for all neighbours and relevant states of the region. In order to build a so-called regional approach, we want to build a core format, like a G5 with India, Pakistan, Iran, China and Russia. We believe that it can be an engine for not only building regional consensus, but also for doing something in order to implement this consensus and let the current rulers of Afghanistan know that they should listen to us.
We are not going to interfere. But what they are doing will not only damage them, it will also damage us, in terms of terrorism, drugs etc. We believe that India can play a role and we are ready to cooperate.
Q/ India firmly believes that the Taliban is a Pakistan creation.
A/ It is a wrong perception. If you watch carefully what is going on between the Taliban and Pakistan, you will see that although Pakistan has the most influence on the Taliban, Islamabad cannot manipulate it. That is why it is up to us to not exclude Pakistan. We should include Pakistan, because Pakistan suffers as well. Pakistan has a civil society and if terrorism flourishes in Afghanistan, it is dangerous for that civil society.
Q/ India believes that Pakistan is pursuing the strategic depth policy in Afghanistan. Do you think that can be overcome?
A/ I hope that it could be overcome, because these suspicions, as we put it, are mutual. Pakistan, too, is strongly opposed to including India in the process. States should overcome thinking in the sense of national interests alone. We are just appealing to common sense. It is up to both Delhi and Islamabad to have enough common sense to do something to overcome the suspicions, although we know it is very difficult because of the mutual history.
Q/ China is another major actor. Suspicions between India and China, too, are quite high.
A/ We are working on that as well. I can share with you that when we suggested this idea of building a five-member format as a core of regional efforts, China supported it. But since China has its so-called “all-weather” relations with Pakistan, it said, ‘We agree India is very much important and it should be with us. But at least, persuade Pakistan’. This indicates that China understands the importance of being there, and the importance of cooperation between China and India for regional stability and security.
Q/ There have been attacks on Chinese interests in Afghanistan and China wants to pull out its investments.
A/ We always knew that it is risky to run businesses in Afghanistan. That is why you cannot see many Russian companies operating there. Chinese businesses tried their best. It is in the interest of Afghanistan to develop those copper fields in eastern Afghanistan and some other projects. China is being attacked because there are many actors and terrorist groups operating in Afghanistan. The west, by the way, like India, is not very happy with China’s Belt and Road Initiative. While India just criticises it, there are people in the west who are trying to undermine it by manipulating terrorist groups inside Afghanistan against China.
Q/ Who are you referring to?
A/ The Anglo-Saxons. I am not shy about calling a spade a spade.
Q/ How do you look at the existing security concerns in Afghanistan?
A/ It is, unfortunately, business as usual. But at this particular time, we are really concerned about the socio-economic situation, which will easily be combined with other challenges like terrorism and drugs. It is a real concern for us. We care about ordinary Afghans as they suffer the most. We, of course, try not to interfere in the internal affairs of other countries. But we cannot hide our disillusionment with how the Taliban is handling the situation. It did a great job by kicking out the Americans and all puppet governments. But it has not learned how to run a government. The Taliban has reiterated many times that it has learned its lessons and will not repeat past mistakes. But now we can see the same picture, which is, of course, a pity.
The Taliban cannot understand very simple things sometimes, especially when there are no challenges to its power. I mean serious challengers who can dislodge it. It does not mean that such challenges will not come. It will not be someone from the outside. But it will be a normal reaction of the Afghan people because it will be very difficult for them to survive under the circumstances. The Taliban, like the earlier puppet governments, is lucky to have such people like the Afghans who can survive with just a piece of bread and water. But enough is enough. It cannot go on like this. We are trying our best to soften this pressure on the Afghan people by developing business with Afghanistan and sending humanitarian relief and we are going to continue doing that. But the Taliban should take institutional steps to improve the situation or at least to open a way for such improvement, which we cannot see at the moment.
Q/ The Taliban so far has failed to alter its behaviour despite various formats of talks.
A/ There is diplomacy and a way of persuading. If the Taliban does not buy it, there is another element which is much stronger than diplomacy: it is life. Life will make the Taliban change. But, for that, it will have to start suffering by itself. Not the Afghan people. The Taliban will have to understand that it is going to lose what it has.
Q/ Your views on the Taliban’s notorious decision to keep women out of educational institutions and workplaces?
A/ The latest step by Taliban authorities to deprive women to go to universities is senseless. I cannot understand it. I want to talk to the Taliban leadership and share our dismay and disappointment.